On fandom, my history with it, and moving forward

[nanslice]

So. I've been in fandom for a very long time. It was late 2000, I was a shy 13 year old, and we got our first computer. I immediately started searching (not "googling", nope; I used Alta Vista back then) for Slayers and Sailor Moon related stuff. I almost immediately fell into Darkness Rising (I can't believe that site is still around) and the rest is history. Because I didn't go to high school, fandom was absolutely my main way of interacting with the world. From 2000 to 2005, I was basically a shut-in. Then I started college and met imperion. And I mean! I was still addicted to fandom! It's just that I had a partner in crime to enjoy it with irl, haha.

But things change. Fandom is a very different animal. It's so open now. People write their porn under their real name and photo. Rather than the deep discussions available on yahoo groups and journaling websites, the flash bang of tumblr rules. People don't really talk about things anymore. They just like and scroll on. And I've found that although people talk a lot about coming back to journal fandom and recreating what once was, it often ends up being nostalgia talking and very little actually gets done.

And maybe that's just the way it's suppose to be. Nothing can really recreate those golden years. And not just in terms of how fandom works; I don't think I could go back to being as consumed by fandom as I was. And that was absolutely part of the appeal, being able to just lose myself in this online world. I can't. There's too much happening offline. I have too many responsibilities. I have original works I want to develop. I want to take in new media.

I don't know. I still read fic and I'm still interested in writing fic. But. I don't know. I don't really know where I'm going with this. I'm just feeling really sad about the way fandom was but also aware and (finally) accepting that we can never go back to that, and also unsure about whether I would if I could and why is does this particular hobby mean so much (because it was very much a Way of Life for a while there, haha, oh me).

Anyway. This whole thing probably doesn't make much sense but I definitely would love to hear y'all thoughts.

Comments

[redsixwing]

Hah, yeah.

This is kind of how I feel about online RP. Because every group I've attempted to play with recently has fallen apart, or ignored me/my character, or both; or otherwise gone toxic and died. When it was my life, almost literally, some years ago - getting through the day so I could go home and read and write. If smart phones had been a thing, you'd never have pried me off the RP boards.

Tumblr, for all its shiny cool things, is NOT a substitute. For one thing, threading is a PITA and pulling in more than one-on-one is basically not done. *sigh*

So, I hear you. I wish it could be again what it was - wish we could have crunchy fandom-specific meta side by side with bubblegum fluff, wish we could have it all in one easily-accessible place.

I've found some replacement in convention panels, which can at least provide an hour-long deep dive into the good stuff, but those are few and far between by necessity, and not all of them are even good.

I don't have a solution, but you aren't alone in mourning the change.

[nanslice]

Yeah. And I mean...I wouldn't be able to participate in fandom the way I could before, even if it were the same. I just...I'm an adult, you know? I have too many other things going on now. So what does it matter that it's on tumblr and that I don't like tumblr very much? I can't spend the time on it that I used to.

I was talking about this with imperion and she made a pretty astute comment, that our generation of fandom is getting older so it only makes sense that the way we participate (or don't) would change. And I think that's kind of where I'm at; I've been clinging so hard to the notion that we can go back to the way it was if only people would come back to journaling, when in actuality I can't go back to the way it was because I'm not the same person I was.

And like *hands* what do I even do with this information now? It kind of makes me sad.

[stormsong]

People write their porn under their real name and photo.

!?!?!?!?!?!?! Where are they doing this? *is scandalized*

Yeah, I really haven't gotten into Tumblr. It's one of those things I think I would have gotten sucked right into when I was younger, but now I'm like, "I don't have time to curate this shit." I do have one; I'm just not sure what to do with it really, and I don't actually interact with anyone on there because I don't understand how that works. Like, I assume they get notified when you re-blog something, and then you can carry on a conversation by re-blogging each others' posts?

[nanslice]

Oh tumblr, of course! And being so open with their ages along with it; when I was drawing a ton of porn, I would regularly get notifications telling me something liked/reblogged something I drew and I would go check them out and they'd be 14/15 years old. ;;;;; Like, children, please stop.

I enjoyed tumblr for a while but it's pretty exhausting and frustrating. It's great as a graphic sharing website (and from what I know about its history, that's what it started out as) but even then you lose control of where your piece goes and what people do with it very easily. Plus it's so fast paced.

Tumblr's a fun website but it's pretty shallow after a while.

[spectrier]

"Netscape 3.0 at 800x600" boy that's a throwback.

I have also lost my ability to get completely lost in fandom. I don't know about you but that has made engaging in current fandom spaces kind of difficult, as my interests are now a lot broader than they used to be. I want to talk to people about current video games, not one specific fandom. I like Overwatch, for example. I don't particularly care about the lore, or the characters, or coming up with AUs, but I certainly like PLAYING it. Where's that part of the series??

People don't really talk about things anymore.

Yeah, 100% this is what I miss and haven't really found a perfect substitute. I liked being able to post on someone's fanfic/icons/art/theories/episode watch-a-longs whatever and chat with a group of people about it, Tumblr/Twitter don't really have the interface have group conversations. Weirdly(?) I've got some of this satisfaction from SometingAwful (probably because, as a forum, it's one of the dying relics of the internet because...having specific areas where you state "this is the topic I want to discuss here, with the audience of this website" went out of fashion and I don't understand why). Post in an anime thread when a new episode comes out or talk about rescue dogs or ask about hardware with people I can recognize by username in a space devoted to that specific topic. It's kind of sad this is the only place as there's some cruddy parts (and it's a paid membership) but it is what it is.

Some smaller reddits scratch the itch as well but that's still a much wider audience and also has the flashbang issue (if it's not seen, it's gone; also, upvoting/downvoting doesn't always favor discussion if your opinion goes against the group).

I do wonder sometimes if journaling would have a stronger presence if Livejournal had handled the site better than they did towards the 'end'.

This is a lot of words, sorry! Your post inspired me to spew my own thoughts. :p

[nanslice]

I want to talk to people about current video games, not one specific fandom.

So I was thinking about this and in fact, maybe the insular nature of fandom was part of the appeal. When I was in anime fandom, there were only a few to talk about because, of course, anime wasn't nearly as popular as it is now! So everyone had to talk/write/draw for the same stuff!

But yeah, I understand what you mean. My interests have also broadened in a way that makes it hard to relate to fandom, particularly when it's expected now that your tumblr (using tumblr because that's where fandom is) will be devoted to a particular fandom or "suite of fandoms." So people follow you when you're into one thing but will drop you as soon as you start reblogging about other things.

I think I'm not as worried so much about where fandom is, though, as I am about whether or not I would want to participate in it even if it were in a form and on a platform more palatable. Whether or not it's something I would want to invest all this time and energy into.

I don't know! It's a hard thing to think about because there are so many emotions wrapped up in it.

[dancing_serpent]

When I got into online fandom I was already in my mid-twenties and working a full time job. So in my case, there's no connection between adolescence (or childhood) and fandom, as it is for so many people I talk to. I don't think in ways of "I'm an adult now, I'm too old for fandom, or I have no time for fandom any more". I've never been as consumed by fandom as other people were. There was LARP and Pen & Paper roleplaying, I went dancing every weekend, and I went to concerts and music festivals. But still, there's quite a bit of nostalgia on my part.

Rather than the deep discussions available on yahoo groups and journaling websites, the flash bang of tumblr rules. People don't really talk about things anymore. They just like and scroll on.

This is where my nostalgia makes an appearance. I miss the discussions, the interaction. People leaving comments on fic. There are a few reasons why I run a few lines of code to suppress anything involving kudos on AO3. For one, they don't mean anything to me. For another, it helps me with not falling into the kudos trap myself. I'm still writing comments on the fics I liked.

...although people talk a lot about coming back to journal fandom and recreating what once was, it often ends up being nostalgia talking and very little actually gets done.

And this is something that annoys me. Because I do try to do something. I create communities, I find people who create stuff and ask them if they'd like to post, I even try to create content myself (as I'm neither an artist, nor much of an author, or icon maker, this is really difficult for me). But people say "Meh, it's so empty, I'm not posting when it's so empty.

And I can't help thinking of an empty dance floor, and people being too shy to start and be the first one dancing. And they forget that once somebody makes the first move, more people will follow, and then you'll barely have the space for fancy moves. (I got the anime_manga running by asking a few people to dance with me.)

I'm sorry. This did turn out more like a rant than anything else. :-(

[nanslice]

No need to apologize. Your experiences definitely feel like they're in the minority though, and I can definitely see how this would be of greater frustration for you.

But I think fandom as a whole has really just moved on from communities. One of my friends made a pretty powerful comment and I mentioned it above, but she said that our generation of fandom is getting older so it only makes sense that the way we participate (or don't) would change. And that's very true. I just don't have time to spend on it and one thing that tumblr does do very well is get stuff out for people to see, and AO3 gives me the daily about kudos (and I very much appreciate kudos, haha).

Anyway, our generation of fandom is getting older and the new generation that has grown up with social media and having instant gratification through their phones and being able to really participate by just reblogging things seems to love tumblr. And I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not ideal for me but. Even if fandom were on a platform that was more palatable and easy to use, I don't even know if I'd be able to spend the time on it that I did. Or if I would even want to.

I don't know. It's all very hard to think about and deal with but I imagine nothing will really change. I'll continue writing shorter length fics and occasionally drawing art and that'll be it, haha.

[badfalcon]

I joined online fandom way way way back in like 1997, 1998? I was 16, I was a shy geek with no friends and then there were Yahoo Groups and people who liked the same music as me and the same movies and tv shows as me and we'd just talk about the stories and the characters and everything and nothing - both on the groups, in irc chats, on email back and forth for hours .

I remember the uproar when fandom started to move from Yahoo Groups (where you knew what you had or hadn't read because it was right there in your inbox!) to Livejournal (but how does it work?) and then I have to admit I fell in love with the blogging side of things as well as the fandom and feeling like I was really getting to know people - although damnit, never under our real names!

Tumblr doesn't work for me. I find it even more difficult to keep track of what I have/haven't seen, I don't find it easy to connect with people - but I get how it works for... oh, god, feeling old here but for the younger generation - everything is much more fast paced than it was 5, 10, 20 years ago.

[nanslice]

Haha, omg, I remember when LJ was still a new thing and I remember reading some people's journals and being like "why would you want to keep something like this?" Then I got one and it ended up being, like, the greatest thing, hahaha.

but I get how it works for... oh, god, feeling old here but for the younger generation - everything is much more fast paced than it was 5, 10, 20 years ago.

This is exactly it. As we get older and as more and more newer, younger fans come in, things are of course going to change based on the new demographics. Or rather, they're not even new demographics, they're just new people to fill the same demographics that we filled back then, they just have very different expectations about how things work. Because the technology has changed.

And it's like, even if the platforms were the same, would I still be able to spend the kind of time that I spent in fandom? Would I want to? I don't know.

[hellkitty]

I've had this conversation a LOT with my fandom friends. I got into fandom JUUUST as LJ was getting big as a fandom space, and when AO3 was still new and super stingy with the invites, and man, we used to really know each other! People would talk about fandom, but also their lives outside of fandom and it was just...awesome. I could crack open my LJ every day and have at least a dozen posts to read.

Okay, there was wank, and crap going on with passive aggressive posts under f-lock and all that stuff, which made me despair because it felt like being back in high school (which was NOT a good time for me!). I tried Tumblr, I really did, but it does not really seem the place for original content--it's a place I see memes and picspams and stuff that wants wide circulation (like 'hey here's a new fic I wrote') but having an actual conversation is futile.

I miss meta the most--the discussions and questions and trying to figure stuff out about a canon world, or a character, but that's narrowed into a very small set of categories that tend to lead to negativity (Is Pidge in Voltron trans? Your opinion will make you friends or mortal enemies!). I thought for a while meta might at least happen in fic comments, but...not so.

I miss the connection. I like kudos on fics, sure, and of course I like comments, but I really miss knowing the people BEHIND those things!

[nanslice]

Huh! What year did you get into fandom? I got my LJ in...2003, I think? And LJ fandom was so awesome back then, from about 2003 to maybe early 2007. Then Strikethrough happened and everything went to shit, haha.

And yeah, fandom certainly wasn't this utopia but at least it was all contained. And people could make communities and moderate those communities so if you hated something, you could just refrain from joining the comm! Now everything tagged and thrown together and it just seems to make the drama so much worse. There's xkit but tbh if you have add so much code and work arounds to make a site usable, welp! Maybe that should be a sign that there's a problem. :\

But the bigger question for me is, even if fandom were on a better platform and even if it were like it was back then, I'm not. I just don't have the time to spend obsessing over things like I used to (and that's very much what fandom was for me; an obsession). And I think I'm finally realizing and coming to terms with that. That just as fandom is never going to be like it was 15 years ago, neither am I. And that's okay. That's to be expected.

But it's a hard realization to come to terms with, haha.

[darthneko]

I hear you. *hugs* like, lots and lots. It was definitely a Way Of Life for awhile, and as a diversion from the RL stuff it got me through a lot. Also met me up with lots of awesome people for reals, including 6 previous roommates, an ex, and my wife, so yeah. Totally influential chunk of life.

Like you, I miss the discussions and depth we used to have, on the journaling platforms, and while I can navigate tumblr it's just.... yeah. Too open, too flash in the pan, not really made for discussion. The base of what fandom used to be is gone, and we can't get it back. It's moved on, it's evolved.

And I don't know if I'd want it back, really. I miss the discussions. Like, a lot. I miss the shared energy of people TALKING instead of just kudoing things. But I don't have a lot of time or energy for consuming new medias or jumping into new fandoms, and more and more I find I write/draw for ME, never mind what fandom thinks, and quietly consume in my older fandoms along with the silent masses (though I try to kudo everything I finish reading and leave comments if I can think of anything to say). It's just disappointing that it started turning into this divide between content producers and the readers/watchers without as much joint talk and discussion.

[nanslice]

Oh man, so much your last paragraph. I've spent so much time pining for what fandom used to be that I didn't really stop to think about whether or not I wanted that back. Or even whether or not it would be healthy for me to have it back. It really was incredibly time- and energy-consuming, haha.

But it's really a hard thing to let go, this idea that this home that I had on the internet for so long is no longer a place for me to be. But things change. Fandom has changed to be more suited for people who enjoy the quickness and instant gratification of tumblr. And I can't really begrudge them for that.

[darthneko]

I can't begrudge them (things change in all aspects of life, it is what it is). I will, however, continue to identify myself as a fan - I draw fanart, I write fanfic, I am a fan of things. Heck, I'm currently 15k words deep in just one slice of my epic headcanon for my current fandom. But I don't like the things that are popular any more and I don't care about the ship of the day in any given fandom and I don't have the energy, spoons, or time to give to the fandom drama that comes with large groups of people any more.

So, yeah. I guess I identify as a fan, but not part of fandom? And that's just how it is. I'm not going to give up the things I enjoy that make up fandom as I knew it, but 'fandom', as it exists right now, isn't really a part of that and doesn't need to be.

[lassarina]

mmmmm. I feel this.

I don't have time anymore to engage with fandom as I used to, but Imiss the people and the love I found there. Some of that is still around because I'm still friends with a lot of those people, but you're right that we can't recreate what was.

That said, I still think it's important for me to engage with fandom - I don't quite know what I'm saying here either, but man, I'd miss so much if I stopped hanging out with fannish people.

[nanslice]

HMMM. I think it's mostly the general excitement and camaraderie that I miss the most. But I think I'm finally just coming to terms with the fact that fandom as I knew and loved is gone and no matter how much people say they want to bring it back, it's gone. And that's okay. Fandom has changed and our "generation" of fans has changed. It happens. Things evolve and unfortunately, this time it evolved into something I'm not super interested in participating in.

That's partially why I've abandoned other social media sites but kept DW. It's still comfortable here. Although, haha, tumblr is always good for likes, I guess, even though it's so much screaming into the void.

I'll probably still engage with fandom - I'm in the middle of a Beauty and the Beast piece, haha - but I'm probably going to stop trying to build it up anymore. No stretching myself over multiple platforms. No worrying about the state of it. It's just going to be a hobby, instead of the home it used to be.

....oh jeez. ;;;;

But anyway, no matter how fannish or non-fannish I get, I'll always keep using DW. I can't imagine not having an online blog of some kind and facebook just doesn't do it for me at all.